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Uncomfortable in my Shell - F*cking with Clusters

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Can anyone explain the correlation between being a PLs type person and evangelizing tcsh and Emacs? Of the 4 PLs profs I've known, 3/4 have done this. The 4th may have used them, but if so he kept it to himself. My current prof has written his own language that forces both of these on the students. (I've looked a little at this.. if I had a lot of time this term, I could probably fix it, but its non-trivial)

Also, is there anything better than Viper to make Emacs usable for those of us who have vim inclinations?
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From:magicpacket
Date:September 25th, 2006 05:33 am (UTC)
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I'm a hardcore vim fan, but I can understand people liking emacs. But tcsh? TCSH? TCSH!? Eww. Terrible for scripting, and crappier than zsh for interactivity.
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From:avani
Date:September 25th, 2006 08:59 pm (UTC)

I need an icon like that

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Yea.. if I drop the course, I'm going to e-mail him the "Don't script in csh" essay. The package includes modified tcsh scripts (they run in the prof's tcsh-extension specialized for his Franken-language.)

I have no qualm with Emacs users. I use Emacs (MULE) for any writing that needs multi-language support, since its a royal nightmare in Vim. However, even if I could train myself to use Emacs to code, I'm going to bitch and moan about being locked into an environment to pass a course :-P.
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From:bonboard
Date:September 26th, 2006 03:39 am (UTC)
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tcsh beats the pants off of csh, which some people continue to use to this day. Of my workgroup of about 40 people, about 35 of them exclusively use csh (their shell usage needs are apparently vanishingly small). I use tcsh interactively so that they can handle my terminals when needed, I can source their lousily-built scripts, etc. I script only in sh, bash, and ksh, of course.
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From:omega697
Date:September 25th, 2006 06:04 am (UTC)
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PLs people like Lisp?
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From:avani
Date:September 25th, 2006 09:07 pm (UTC)
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There is that.. but I know plenty of folk who like Lisp and use vim, so it seems like there has got to be more to it.
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From:eqe
Date:September 25th, 2006 06:28 am (UTC)
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I have always found that emulation modes are a net loss; I inevitably want to use the system as it was designed to be used. So though I use vim for everything else, when I'm doing lispish programming I use emacs (or xemacs more likely) in native mode. It really is quite excellent in many ways. And using it has made me significantly better at navigating emacs-mode command line editing.

At my last job there were a bunch of emacs users (mostly on Win32, no less). At least one of them used Viper in that horrible "vi for dummies" way, "ESC ESC xxxxxxxxxifoo ESClllllllllllxxxxxxx". People, if you insist on using a tool, you should learn how to use it right. "c2wfooESC3wdf-", please.
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From:avani
Date:September 25th, 2006 09:05 pm (UTC)
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So though I use vim for everything else, when I'm doing lispish programming I use emacs (or xemacs more likely) in native mode. It really is quite excellent in many ways. And using it has made me significantly better at navigating emacs-mode command line editing.


That's heartening. I've used Emacs for its multi-language support, but I've never really given it a fair shot as an editor (my one experience with Lisp was traumatic enough as is ... highly optimized uncommented implementatation-specific research-level code). Did you use Viper, or did you manage to teach yourself out of the automatic vim keystrokes?

At least one of them used Viper in that horrible "vi for dummies" way, "ESC ESC xxxxxxxxxifoo ESClllllllllllxxxxxxx".

::shudder::

Though.. I kinda want to see "vi for Dummies". I can imagine a book like that being hilarious.
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